April 16, 2006
Fellowship of Friends - a cult for intellectuals
Posted by the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion under Discussion, Fellowship of Friends, Forum, Personal ExperiencesHello and welcome to the the Fellowship of Friends discussion. The article that you will find beneath was written by me about a year ago, since then this blog has been functioning as a neutral ground for people to discuss the organisation. There are hundreds of comments to go through so make sure that you have the time. Feel free to skip the initial article and move to the actual discussion, which is far more enlightening.
This is part 1 of the discussion.
For part 2 click here.
For part 3 click here.
For part 4 click here.
For part 5 click here.
For part 6 click here.
For part 7 click here.
For part 8 click here.
For part 9 click here.
For part 10 click here.
For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/ and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/ respectively.
The newest development has been the formation of a blog specifically designed to host the discussion, here it is: Fellowship of Friends Blog.
My visit to the Fellowship of Friends (written a year ago and not changed since)
I have had a very interesting experience today, I visited an informal presentation of the Fellowship of Friends (http://www.apollo.org/) to listen to their take on the Fourth Way teachings - teachings of Gurdjieff and his disciple Ouspensky. I am full of mixed feelings, I have just finished doing some rather extensive research on the Fellowship and the results were not happy, thus meeting some of my fears and intensifying my distrust of this cult.
I will structure this entry in the following manner: section 1) will deal with my visit to the Fellowship as it happened, with no added judgements; section 2) will try to put things into context using my additional research; section 3) will include my personal opinions on the visit, on the Fellowship etc.
1) The Fellowship headquarters in London are suited in a rather nice part of northern London, in an area that is much more beautiful and green than most, one that offers a rather enchanting landscape view of a small part of London which is otherwise hidden from sight.
The day of my visit to the Fellowship was a nice sunny day and many times was I forced to stop and take in the magnificent view. When I was nearing the house where the presentation was supposed to take place, I was overtaken by an old red car, most of it brightly painted over with psychedelic imagery, esoteric symbolism and pictures of tribal people drumming and dancing. I knew I was going in the right direction. And as I arrived at the end of my journey, there stood the inhabitants of the car - a large bald man with a green sweather and 3 massive crystal necklaces, a lady with hair the colours of the rainbow, and another lady who was slightly less outgoing and whose appearance therefore slipped my mind. I wrongly took them for the presenters at first, for they were just humble visitors, same as me.
I knocked on the door of a fairly large suburban house and was let in by a man of Eastern looks - a mixture of Russian and Arab features. He was dressed in a very expensive pastel suit, his looks could not have been any more perfect. He was the doorman - so you can imagine what the rest of the troupe who were to entertain us looked like. I went through to the living room and into the meeting chamber. There were smartly dressed people everywhere - most of them in their late 30s or 40s, all of them with easy manners, slight charm but also arrogance. I was seated on a chair and had a second to properly take in my surroundings. The house was beautiful - very tasteful, beautiful paintings, statues and other art, all in perfect position - everything looked very stylish and upper-class.
There were 3 men - or rather one 30+ years old man and two young men in their twenties, both of them with great expectations and slight naivity easily readable on their faces. I was to find out that the young men were brothers from Poland who came to find out more about the esoteric knowledge that this group had to offer. The older man was a new member of the Fellowship, his acting skills were not yet as highly developed as his colleagues’ therefore he came across as a rather down-to-earth kind of man. We briefly talked and I was happy to see some common interests between us, yet slightly disappointed by the two young men (who seemed intelligent but far too naive and unguarded not to be easily manipulated). We were later joined by a beautiful young woman either from Italy or Spain, also smartly dressed, who kept our company for a minute or two and fueled many sexual fantasies and desires for the two boys just by her presence. I was, of course, untouched. As long as falling in love on the first sight does not count.
Then came time for the presentation itself. We were seated by the man who was to chair the event - he moved us several times until he was certain that the ‘energy in the room was properly distributed’. This was a pretty funny event - adults were told to sit at other places, move their chairs, swap places and such - all of this I believe was meant to put us at ease. Then came the time for introductions.
The presenters were numerous and picked so that as many different types were represented - the main presenter was an English man, aristocrat appearance and an old-school beige suit, he had piercing eyes and a deep enchanting voice, he was the most charismatic manipulator I have ever met. His entourage consisted of an intellectual American (not an oxymorom), scruffy yet perfectly dressed Scottsman, the beautiful south-western European woman, 2 pretty older women (one English, one foreign) and about 3 other British men. All of them perfectly dressed, if in a rather eighteenth century kind of way.
The visitors were as follows: me, the 3 inhabitants of the psychedelic car, an unhealthy fat English lady interested in lucid dreaming, the two Poles, an uneasy scared Brit and possibly one or two others.
There were also some other Fellowship members who were not presenting and two Russians/Arabs in incredibly expensive summer suits who looked like bodyguards. The member:non-member ratio was roughly 2:1.
The presentation started and the basic ideas were put forward:
- there are 4 levels of consciousness going from the lowest to the highest: sleep, being awake (still asleep), awareness of oneself, and the final 4th state. The first state is experienced while dreaming, the second state is experienced while we are awake, yet it is like a dream in that we behave like robots - there is no self, no will and we react to outside influences in pre-programmed ways. These first two states are the only states experiencable without some heavy work on one-self. The third state usually happens once in one’s life and can be accessed again through techniques taught by the school. Through being in the third state continuosly one can access the fourth state and awaken. The only truly awakened is Robert Burton, the founder of the Fellowship;
- you can not achieve awakening on your own - you need a teacher who is farther down the road than yourself;
- awakening is the only way to keep on living after death - the only way to an after-life;
- psychology, psychotherapy and psychoanalysis are useless and wrong - they are a false science - the only way to cure oneself is through awakening oneself.
There were more ideas put through but I forgot what they consisted of. Something about turning negative feelings and emotions into positive energy (and self-awareness) and similar. The main speaker also made us do a short simple exercise on attention - the idea was that through being attentative (through ‘being in the room’) one can experience oneself experiencing his surroundings - what he sees, hears,… Through this split-awareness one can train oneself to fully experience everything and by prolonging this state one can enter the 3rd state of consciousness. - Readers who are aware of the concept of mindfulness or the teachings of Gurdjieff will understand.
Overall, a very interesting presentation - some things made sense, others were slightly absurd(such as that angels exist and talk with certain special individuals). I don’t know how much of it was taken from Gurdjieff or Ouspensky since I never read them. I suppose that much was added by Burton - probably a fair amount.
Then came time for questions which were answered in such a way as to create more interest in the subject, a genuine wish to find out more about the teachings. Manipulator galore. The idea that these teachings (and this school) were the only way to salvation were very quietly and with great skill fed to the listeners - mainly the idea that only the awakened will be given after-life. I asked why this school was more relevant than the other esoteric schools and before I even finished the last syllable I was answered that this school wasn’t more relevant - the only thing that was relevant was that at that moment I was in the Fourth Way school. All questions were treated as if they were trivial and did not deserve any time from the presenters.
Then came time for snacks, tea, coffee and informal conversation. I tried to talk to the guy who chaired the meeting but he quickly threw me in the direction of other members - he wasn’t wishing to talk to any non-members any more. So I found the American presenter and started a conversation with him, this is what I found:
- my personal mystical experiences were unknown to him, he did not understand them when I tried to explain them to him; that in itself is strange since most people who dabble in this area usually know what I am talking about;
- psychedelic drugs are not allowed in the Fellowship, they are viewed as a means to attaining higher states of consciousness in the short-term but they have negative effect in the long-term;
- there are supposedly 2 people in Britain who attained a permanent 3rd state of consciousness (he called it ‘crystallization’ I think), they were not present at the presentation;
- he said that he joined the Fellowship when he was 22 and that it’s a good time to start studying at a school and that the Fellowship changed his life. To that I replied that I have already had my life-changing experience and that I don’t think that my road is the same as that of the Fellowship, and that I did not agree with the Fellowship policy to take 10% of one’s annual revenue as membership payment each year since attainement of higher states of consciousness should be taught for free. To that he replied that I am not the only one to think that but that there were reasons for that fee (to show people’s willingness to suffer in order to prosper spiritually, and to use the fees to fund the school) and that if I choose not to join I should just keep on following the coincidences that have been happenin to me. Sound advice.
So I left without saying my goodbyes. It was a strange experience, god knows if it was positive or negative.
2) You might have gathered on your own that the Fellowship is a bit of a cult. Just how bad it is can be gathered from here:
http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/f/fellowship/
http://www.rickross.com/groups/fof.html
The leader is quite definitely insane, a paedophile, brainwasher and manipulator. And he’s good. He likes people to dress up nice and smart, he doesn’t like people to joke, he hates smoking and, just for good measure, he dislikes pre-marital sex and homosexuality. That’s coming from a man who has had several lawsuits filed against him for forced homosexual acts. He also believes that he talks with 44 angels - including Jesus, Franklin and Goethe. Rock on Burton!!! Sadly enough this madman has managed to attract around 2000 followers.
3) This is the hard part. I hate to say it but some of the people I met in the Fellowship were incredibly inteligent, well-versed in esoteric studies, knowledgable and possibly quite far on the self-exploration path. They seemed to have that ‘it’ that serious students of alternate states of consciousness, the inner and outer realities, acquire after time. Doesn’t bode well with the cultist reality of the Fellowship but that’s what I was getting from them. After reading some more on these things I have to say that most of it was probably an act. The arrogance felt from the members of the Fellowship towards the listeners can be explained by the belief of these people that whoever is not a member is a worthless robot who deserves nothing from the superior members. This is a belief that is taught as a part of the teachings of the Fellowship of Friends, it always results in alienation from one’s family, friends, partner - you name it.
So be warned - there are better Gurdjieff organisations, other schools and other teachers. Cults should never be trifled with! I believe that an integral part of a personal journey is the (sub-conscious) search for a teacher, it would be a mistake to learn from false prophets. So don’t be attracted by easy gains, it’s better to wait for the real deal than to join a cult that offers the ‘perfect’ self-betterment practices. I have come across most of the techniques that were briefly talked about in the presentation at other places. One of the techniques that the Fellowship uses to attract new members is by putting Fellowship bookmarks into books in esoteric bookstores and libraries. Coincidence? - hardly.
So what is the lesson of the day? Always be sceptical, don’t trust or believe anything and let things happen as they wish. Your mission is to deal with it afterwards, integrate it and learn from it. Don’t let people manipulate you! And if you ever run out of money start a cult and put your esoteric knowledge to good use (as Burton did).
June 24, 2006 at 11:05 pm
Just a note to let you know that this well-mannered, well-dressed, country club cult, destroyed my life. The leader, Robert Burton, has destroyed many lives. Lawsuits brought against him are always settled with a clause that the petitioner not be able to discuss the cult. If you stay alert on line, you are sometimes able to communicate with those who have become litigious prior to the settlement. Stella Wirk and her husband have amusing and horrifying information about this cult, having been two of the original six members (including Robert Burton) who started the Fellowship of Friends. There are supposedly other Gurdjieff Ouspensky groups who are not as cultish and pyramid scheming financially as the Fellowship of Friends. Best of luck with your enlightenment.
July 24, 2006 at 10:01 pm
Hey
I got my first presentation this month (July) too.
The ideas presented weren’t new at all, well probably it is too soon to judge though since they said that I still have one more meeting.
What I disliked was:
asking for that 10% for just them is selfish! I’ll read “The 4th Way book” and see if I continue with them or not.
- You cannot do it alone: that was a turn-off
- you have to pay 10% of your income (which should be not less than $20): that also turned me off and made me question them. Fine there are charges, but why give the 10% to them? One better give out 10% to different people (charity, family, etc…
Oh btw, the reports on Rick Ross regarding R.B are alarming as well.
July 26, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Seriously watch out. First decide whether you truly do want to join a group, the history is full of people who managed great things on their own. There are also other ways to meet like-minded people than to join a group that may be potentially harmful to you. The Feollowship will be harmful to you, you have been warned.
If you still wish to join a Gurdjieff group, you might want to have a look at: http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id132/pg1/index.html
If you don’t mind me asking why have you decided to seek help in your search for enlightenment and what do you think it is that the Fellowship has to offer that you can not get on your own? - as to the truthfulness of the Fellowship of Friends, it is a lie that you can not do work on yourself alone. If they lied once, who is to say how much of what they say is true.
August 5, 2006 at 6:16 am
I have been part of the fellowship for over 30 years, and have heard of many things that the “teacher” may have done.
I only know, that he promotes the pursuit of awakening for me. He has never approached me for anything claimed here. Have I heard of others that do get approached - yes. Is it rampant- no.
I read these comments, that question the idea that you cannot work alone - and recoil. To anyone who has seriously tried to awaken there has to be a recognition that by your self, you fall back to old patterns - to your old patterns of sleep.
Does the Fellowship offer something that cannot be found on your own — yes!
However, it is highly likely that it will take years to realize this.
Awakening - in its real meaning - is something that you cannot put into words. Awakening is a state that is beyond words, your body, your idea of what your existance is. Once you begin to get a taste, a glimpse of its true and real meaning, then your life gets a focus that will never be turned back - unless your preference is to sleep.
August 5, 2006 at 10:41 am
First things first, I am happy that you felt the need to comment on my article and on what other people had to say about the cult. The fact that you did not disclose your name, e-mail or any other information will work against you.
I am afraid that not only is awakening a very subjective experience, it is also something that is always a little bit out of reach, am I right? - it scares me to see someone who has been with the fellowship for 30 years, yet hasn’t achieved much and is still searching. If this is proof of the effectiveness of the Fellowship then I must say that I am not impressed. I know of numerous individuals outside the fourth way structure who have achieved more than you can possibly dream of in less time and without the need to join restrictive, freedom-destroying cults.
You also seem to think that the main reason for my dislike of the cult is what Robert Burton, the leader, did to some of his pupils (rape). That is quite incorrect - I have a problem with organisations that steal the freedom and money of gullible individuals with empty promises and well-planned social games. As far as I know, Fellowship members are not allowed to read other books than 4th way books, they are not allowed to listen to any other music than classical music hand-picked by the ‘master’, have to dress smart at all occassions, and have to pay extra money to the 10% of their income in order to help the school. The ‘master’ can dictate whatever nonsensical rules he wants, and there is no room for discussion. This goes against everything that Gurdjieff stood for - wasn’t he for never-ending questioning and finding out for yourself? Wasn’t he against blind belief? That, my friend, is the true reason I dislike the Fellowship of Friends.
You, my friend, have been subjected to 30 years of very very precise and targetted brainwashing. Subsequently your comment follows the Fellowship line so closely that it makes me retch - is there no freedom of thought in the cult? Are you not able to offer me any of your own thoughts on the subject? If you wish to defend the Fellowship, and I will give you the chance, I would like to interview you or any other member of the Fellowship to see whether you really are as content and enlightened as you say. My e-mail address is recroanima@gmail.com - please feel free to contact me.
August 15, 2006 at 1:56 am
I have no connection with FOF, but have been
a student of the Fourth Way etc for about 30
years, have done writing etc. in this area.
A comment on how far a person can 1) become
enlightened and 2) clear away personal and
cultural conditioning on his own. One can
only go so far with either of these entirely
on one’s own. A true teacher, whether teaching
in person or via writings or tapes (including
scriptures from world religions),
and by giving initation, can be a catalyst
for enlightenment far beyond what a person
could have achieved otherwise. The ideal is to
be a healthy student of a true and virtuous
teacher. This means open to truth, actively
seeking truth, not overly passive. It doesn’t
take long to get the basics, from which all
else is derived.
Teacher as catalyst is even more true in the
area of Work-on-self which includes examining
and clearing away personal and cultural
conditioning. Especially in the area of
personal conditioning, there are blind spots
and therapeutic ignorance of how
to effectively transform what is found. The
person doens’t know That they don’t know,
they don’t know What they don’t know, and they
don’t know How to effectively fix it if they
did know. No amount of thinking or introspection will allow us to find or fix these areas. Most people don’t know these
areas exist, though they’re constantly at the
effect of them in self and others. No matter how conscientious and self-reflective the
person may be, there is nothing
that compares to effective transformational
process delivered by a true teacher or effective
therapist. Some of this can be delivered in
small groups, which has very many advantages.
At least some private Work with a teacher/therapist is usually necessary, and
can be expedient in the absence of a group.
The forms that this Work can take are varied
in different traditions and approaches,
and the effectiveness, depth, elegance, safety,
and stability of result can vary widely as
well.
It helps to have a basic religious
alignment or agreement with a teacher, as a lot
of Work disasters stem from what derives from
basic religious beliefs or the absence of those
beliefs, or assumptions made about basic
religious beliefs without clarification or conversation, or a teacher’s hidden agendas
about changing a student’s basic religious
beliefs, or a student’s hidden agenda to do
some of the Work but avoid religious
beliefs that may be at the foundation of a
teacher’s teaching and Work. Some paths are
widely inclusive of many religious beliefs,
some are practically secular, some have
more narrow sectarian beliefs, others have
unusual beliefs, but it’s useful to disclose
underlying religious beliefs upfront so that students can make an informed choice. Check
for alignment, and eliminate unpleasant
surprises.
Despite the minefield in personal
transformation, Some intrepid souls will take
the risk to find high quality transformational
Work, and trust that that they can
course-correct as needed. Without the
prerequisites of sound spiritual foundation,
this trust in the larger life process and
discernment of truth, and ability to course-correct will be difficult, and therein lies
much of the problem with people and “cults”,
that early religious education failed
to prepare the person with spiritual basics
so when they seek what is advanced training
in groups or with a teacher or therapist,
they’re lacking in spiritual basics that are
going to hang them up later. The remedial
Work on these pre-requisites is not done.
I have several introductory articles on these
topics. cbwillis@lightlink.com.
C.B. Willis, M.A.
Consultant and Educator
Northern California
August 31, 2006 at 4:27 am
Ahem…speaking of arrogance…
May I refer you to your own remark “intellectual American (not an oxymorom).” Sneering is easy — but you’d better deliver the goods. America has outperformed your beloved U.K. in the last century, by almost any intellectual measure (and I’m adjusting for population differences).
The snottiness is particularly unearned since you misspell Scotsman on the same line above (c.f., newspaper of the same name).
You correct Scottsman to Scotsman, and I promise never to misspell Canadian.
August 31, 2006 at 4:28 am
(By the way, it’s “oxymoron,” not “oxymorom.”
August 31, 2006 at 11:12 am
I am afraid that I am neither English nor American - I was born in the country of Czech Republic and English is therefore my second language. I concur that it may seem that I carry a double-standard towards Americans (who surely all possess better linguistic skills than me) but to be entirely truthful, I simply wished to create in you (and people like you) the exact feeling and disdain that I created. I hope that you are outraged because that is how I wanted you to feel.
As to my grasp of written English - it is far from perfect. And I am afraid that now I can not change the spelling of the above-mentioned words since it would make this discussion ultimately pointless and cheat future readers of our marvelous quips and remarks.
As to my disdain of the American population, I actually have more American friends than English and they are all amazing in various ways. They also laugh instead of sneering when I make similar remarks to those I made in this article - I wonder why my comment caught such a painful nerve in you.
America has outperformed Britain? Darling, America was created by Britain. And isn’t it an agreed-upon maxim that offspring always have to outgrow their parents (as one grows to maturity, the other grows old and withers)? Not to mention the geographic and population differences between the two countries.
I would also like to hear which intellectual measures we’re speaking of here. For example occultism, magic, and mysticism (naming those since this is a Fourth Way article afterall) are much more present in the foggy island of Britain than they will ever be in the cultural wasteland of America.
I hope that you reply to my comment so that we can keep this exciting discussion going. Are you as excited as me?
August 31, 2006 at 6:55 pm
I don’t excite that easily.
“America has outperformed Britain? Darling, America was created by Britain.”
Well, no, not really. There were lots of people living here already, who didn’t need to be created.
Not to mention the Spanish and French, who were living in large parts of America when it was acquired by conquest or bucks.
(Or the creation of a mainstay agricultural industry, largely on the involuntary backs of Africans.)
The “official language” was very nearly made German.
But thanks for being a sport! I thought for sure you’d remove my (in retrospect) rather snide comment.
September 1, 2006 at 5:19 am
“Well, no, not really. There were lots of people living here already, who didn’t need to be created.”
Countless cultures, languages, and lives lost in the genocide. Unfortunately, the influence of the natives on America at the time was minimal. They had no word in the development of the country, even when it was their land.
I don’t really want to takes sides on this issue, especially since the whole debate is off-topic but… take a look at the ‘founding fathers’… not too many Germans or French.
September 8, 2006 at 5:47 pm
‘I pierced and I was pierced’…..
September 29, 2006 at 5:46 pm
“THIS GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING GURDJIEFF STOOD FOR - (wasn’t he for never-ending questioning and finding out for yourself? Wasn’t he against blind belief?)”
-amen, and best of luck.
November 30, 2006 at 8:14 am
Well,
I am a member of FOF for over 15 years, and my sincere advise to all seekers : RUN!!! Because if you join, you’ll subject yourself to the influence which will INEVITABLY twist your understanding and ability to think and make decisions, infuse you with fear of life outside the Fellowship, and develop protective mechanisms (or what we call buffers) to justify your new beliefs. Just like the member who posted above, you’ll learn about the lies, corruption and abuse, but you’ll prefer to “not notice”. Yes, that’s what happens. Because if you say something - you’re out!
Regardless if you were there for 30 years faithfully paying your 10% - you’ll get a boot, and no one will talk to you, all your “friends” wil turn away. Because they are told so, and they are afraid. Cold, cruel policy with no conscience or compassion. Well, I guess, slaves don’t get compassion - and members are slaves!
Essentially, the school is like a drug - a psycological one - you’ll get dependent and will not be able to quit. You’ll hallucinate too, and will see things twisted and colored the way your teacher wants them to be. Please trust me, I speak from personal (withdrawal) experience.
As for awakening, we are told in the school that it will take life-times, and endless efforts (read the member above) and as of today NOT A SINGLE PERSON in our school achieved awakening or even got close. Even all those 30-year members - none except for one devoted party-liner whom teacher announced as an enlightened being, I guess to make things look good for others.
Long-term memers become so affected by this “teaching” that they cannot adapt to regular life anymore. To many the teacher became a father figure. (Often a sex-father-figure).
By the way, it’s not 4th way school. It’s just on the cover. 4th way is long gone. It’s “Robert’s teaching”, and what it really means is total obedience, trained behaviour, manners and dress code, huge monthly payments, and crazy ideas. They are not even ideas, they are some codes and his “keys” to the Bible and ancient texts, short prayers and symbols - not rational, not meaningful, not even funny. No questions allowed, no verifications, no doubts. Very religious. Does it look like 4th way to you?
People in the group often act like police - watch, listen and then - report. It is so corrupted, there is so much money squeezed out of students - just to create a very, very high lifestyle for the Teacher. Oh, he is actually Beloved Teacher.
This School will not bring you to awakening. It will enslave you.
But to be fare - in first 2 -3 years you’ll get to know some very cool people, learn some basic Ouspensky terminology and will actually be able to observe more of yourself and others. You’ll even have some fun! Probably travel to different places and meet people from other countries. You’ll experience fine dining (very expensive though), high class events in rose gardens with fountains (again -it ain’t free), learn some manners and get some class. You’ll look good in toxedo! Women are not allowed to wear pants or jeans, so buy some nice dresses, ladies.
But fun will end, the longer you stay the deeper you sink. And just like the animal who was caged his whole life, you’ll lose sence of freedom and will start defending your cage.
Why i don’t list my name? For the fear of prosecution of course. Why I don’t leave the group? I think the time hasn’t come yet, and there are people in the group in need of support and help. I have dear friends who are stuck and I fell it’s my duty to try helping them. If I get kicked out they may not be able to communicate with me.
AGAIN, I BEG YOU - DO NOT JOIN THIS GROUP. DON’T. AND TELL OTHERS TOO.
If you really feel “spiritual” - check out some Advaita teachers, like Sailor Bob Adamson, Tony Parsons or Adyashanti - much cooler! Don’t pay Robert, he’s already making 5 mil a year from his students (not kidding).
December 4, 2006 at 6:40 am
Dear E.S.
Thank you for providing this medium for us to talk. One of the principle means of control used by groups like Robert’s is how, when, and to whom information is disseminated. There is a megaphone for all that rings positive about the fellowship, and a sophisticated kind of suppression of questioning and doubt.
This is one more open door for us. I would invite all to take advantage of this site, for ANY commentary that seems pertinent. Personally I have always tried to avoid exaggeration - especially about this theme. The more I learn, however, about the increasingly manipulative, religious, and essentric nature of our organization, the more I understand why members various accounts sound extreme. The facts ARE extreme.
Although anonymity is a compromise, it allows those of us who are heavily ‘invested’ a way to of trusting what we see, percieve, or hear from others. It is shared by many. We just don’t know it yet.
Good luck,
St. Fillan
December 12, 2006 at 12:19 am
Hello ‘X’,
If, what you say is true, quote : … you’ll subject yourself to the influence which will INEVITABLY twist your understanding and ability to think and make decisions, infuse you with fear of life outside the Fellowship, and develop protective mechanisms (or what we call buffers) to justify your new beliefs’
Why then would we want to take what you write seriously in the first place as you have already invalidated yourself. Are we to take then that after 15 years in the School your understanding is twisted and you are unable to make desicisons, and even less give advice..?
The mind is tricky, and the ‘evil god of self calming’ is alive and well, we all compromise to a greater or lesser degree. I suggest that you remain in the Fellowship, and if you’re lucky you will realise just how little you do actually ‘know’ yourself.
NB: Is this thread a lateral Octave, and if so - to what purpose….?
Alexis
December 18, 2006 at 12:36 am
Dear All - the mind is indeed tricky and awakening is not it’s domain. The Fellowship is a cult and for some that’s just fine as are all forms of the great dream shared by most on the planet. Really the question is “do you want out of the dream? Out of Illusions?” the other question is “is what you are doing helping you or is it just another illusion?”
Good Luck
December 18, 2006 at 7:37 pm
This discussion is getting more and more interesting - please do keep it going.
In the past two weeks I received these two e-mails:
(1)
Cristina R
to me
hello,
I have recently read what U wrote at
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2006/04/16/fellowship-of-friends-a-cult-for-intellectuals/
and it appeared very interesting for me. Just to be clear from the very beginning-I am not an advocate of Rorbert Burton nor am I supporting his teaching. More than that, I have done some research on the Internet and found out some messages and articles that didn’t seem favorable at all as to his teaching. My problem is that I have friends who are part of the organisation and even my boyfriend is and I feel that they have been pulled into this whole thing without realising that IT IS a cult. It scares me how people can be so easily manipulated and how they can be so fascinated by beautiful things-because luxury is part of Robert’s teaching. I would like to have your opinion on this and to get your impression-for me it is almost impossible to have a normal discussion with any of the members of FOF as they fully support Robert’s teaching and they believ that they are awakened whereas others are not. Also, if you have any other materials or if you have discussed with people who were once members of the cult, that would be of great help for me, even though I frankly don’t believe that things will change for my friends or the FOF in itself. It is much too powerful.
I am looking forward to receiving your message,
Cristina
and (2)
Sonya L
Hello,
I have recently read what you wrote about the Fellowship of Friends on the Internet. It sounded interesting but frightful in the same time. The fact is that I have friends who are in this organisation and I fear myself that it might be a cult-I don’t have though the necessary “documentation” to claim that. Could you help me out with some information, please? I believe that Robert Burton is a very powerful, charismatic person who will continue to lead this organisation for ever, unfortunately. Is there anyhthing that can be done ?
Thank you,
Sonya
Now I am a very simple man but I do have a paranoid mind. I am aware of how the fellowship meticulously clears up all evidence of its activities and settles with ex-members in such a way as to make certain that no more information leaks the organisation. I have heard of the lawsuits, I can imagine who would want to know whether I have any links to ex-members of the fellowship or any ‘documentation’ belonging to the cult.
I will post anything else that comes to my hands, I hope that it will amuse you as much as it has amused me.
Have fun and freedom for all.
December 18, 2006 at 11:17 pm
St.Fillan,
As someone has said: ‘The root of all Evil is Gossip’ (No, it wasn’t Burton)and I believe this to be true. Are you asking for a official wailing wall for disgruntled Students?
Alexis
December 19, 2006 at 8:34 pm
Anonymous’ post is a most thoughtless and unnecessary twisting of ‘X’s thoughts and is an excellent example of what Gurdjieff called “formatory thinking”. The fact that ‘X’ is aware of the commonplace that “group think” tends to destabilise one’s own individual perceptions to the point even of delusion (and that this is happening in the Fellowship of Friends) does not automatically mean that his own perception of this well-known fact must be deluded. Having spent years in the Fellowship, I cannot but agree with him.
There is a psychological process that one undergoes in order to adapt to the culture of the Fellowship. One can be either more or less aware of it (the more aware of it one is, the less comfortable one will be, and the more need there will be to suppress it). The human tendency in group situations is towards conformity of thought and behaviour, as in any long-term group dynamic, religious or secular. It is often necessary to buffer the ‘cognitive dissonance’ that arises when one’s own values are different from or even antithetical to those of the group if one wishes to stay or is frightened into believing that one will be thrown out with no where else to go.
This is certainly the case for many in the Fellowship at one time or another. The problem for students is that they are taught categorically, and reinforced socially, that any doubts, criticisms or problems they have with the Teacher or the School are unsound. These perceptions are not only unsound, they are positively diabolical, and said to emanate from that part of the “machine” which is the enemy to awakening and which seeks to sabotage one’s work. Some students are finally able to regain trust in their own capacity to see the truth (this often takes years of painful soul-searching), and see that what they were believing in or have outgrown is now clearly seen as one’s participation in one’s own self-deception, not to mention that in doing so, one has succumbed to a less than wholesome teaching.
But until students see this they will also be like the person who is at the stage of full indoctrination: they can only have one response to themselves and to others: if one doubts or perceives that something is “evil,” it is their enemy, their “king of clubs” speaking, and that, as yet unawakened beings, they are incapable of determining truth, as such “negative” perceptions are indicative of a lower dualistic level of consciousness (interesting how even people who discover non-dualistic Advaita or Buddhism still recognise when people are behaving badly and how this is directly connected with real spiritual level). In any case, trying to talk to a person fully in the grip of this fundamentalism is like talking to the person who has heard of the psychological term “denial” and uses that concept in order to nullify everyone who disagrees. E.g., “You want to leave because you’ve fallen prey to your own limited ego, but that’s where you’re deluded.” Response: “No, I’m saying that I have seen that I’ve been deluded and now I’ve woken up.” “No, you are in denial. You’re not qualified to say what’s delusional and what isn’t, since you’re not awake.”
That, my friends, is a subtle trap. You must trust yourselves. What you have made into your enemy (your own conscience and your own common sense) is your best and finest friend. This common sense is your integrity, that unity that you have been seeking and which needs to grow. In the pursuit of higher consciousness and mystical states, one must not lose sight of one’s full humanity.
The problem with closed-systems of thought is just that: they are closed. In the Fellowship, as in most, if not all fundamentalist cults or sects, there is never any good reason to leave. This is an assumption underlying the intolerant and ignorant attitude held by some (not all) students, an attitude taught and cultivated by RB. It follows that if there can be no good reason to leave, there can only be bad reasons. The worldview is conceived in black & white. Especially for Fourth Way students, this extreme dualism should be a flag of the chief characteristic of formatory thinking: “either/or”. ‘X’ has clearly ‘verified’ for himself that one is in danger of losing one’s common sense, one’s ability even to perceive truth if one becomes too psychologically, socially, and materially entangled in the Fellowship.
Many students have found that they have had to make significant adjustments to their ideas of good and evil, to the serious detriment of truth and wisdom and the peace of their own consciences. Students will have to reconcile what they see as cruel, arbitrary and aberrant behaviours with grand, artistic, mystical, and psychologically perceptive words. It would be good for them at some point to understand that there is and must be a harmonious connection between mystical ’states’ and ethical actions. This is what people understand in their heart of hearts when they seek a spiritual teacher; otherwise they will be accepting second best; this pure perception of goodness is what they stand in danger of losing if they put their moral compass in the hands of one who cannot exemplify real ‘higher love’, a higher love which is not disembodied, for that is far too easy, but thoroughly embodied in consistent acts of kindness and humility.
December 26, 2006 at 10:14 am
I don’t quite follow you, Alexis. You mean if I discuss President Bush and what the Republican Party has done to the U.S., that’s “gossip”?
Without this kind of “gossip,” how do you hold any individual or group accountable for their actions? Doesn’t a cloak of silence hamper accountability?
Beyond this, if someone is holding himself or herself up as a “conscious being” or whatever … well, shouldn’t we be looking at who they are, really? Even more so when they attempt to direct others? Isn’t a clear-eyed examination of who they are (not merely what they say)likely to be a reasonable indication of where they will be leading others?
And if we don’t do this, aren’t we stuck examining people only by their speeches and words? And isn’t that (at best) “knowledge” and not “being”? After all, anyone can sound good in front of a microphone.
It seems to me that the wish to avoid “gossip” can be a good way to keep people in the fog.
December 29, 2006 at 4:07 pm
To Former Student: I agree to disagree, but what you say in your remarkable Intellectual essay has not been my experience.
Anna, I thought that the primary aim was ‘to Know Thyself’ and not ‘To know Robert Burton’?
December 29, 2006 at 4:27 pm
Anna, my last comment is meant to be taken tongue in Cheek…. Jeezz…..Happy New Year
December 31, 2006 at 3:57 pm
23 comments already, a good number by my accounts. Anyhow, I am really happy to keep an eye on this discussion, especially as there is no need for me to join in. So far the deciding factors for me for who to side with have been the honesty, rational thought and good intentions of the former members of the group. Defenders of the fellowship usually show a lot more aggession, less arguments (most of them being repetitive beyond belief) and more indoctrination - very often they remind me of some religious fundamentalists I have had the displeasure of listening to.
I don’t think that I can do a better job than what has already been done by the numerous individuals who have commented on my humble recollection of a visit to the Fellowship of Friends. What they have to say (and how it makes you feel) is the best way to make up your own mind.
January 1, 2007 at 3:36 am
Camps are being formed, for and against, and as suspected what keeps E.S happy is any possible bunfight between Students and ex students.
My argument is that by understanding yourself you will understand Burton.
Alexis
January 2, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Alexis, I find your posts disturbing.
Please do not take this as a nasty potshot or an attempt to drive you from this discussion – I’ve hesitated to respond for exactly that reason, and will withdraw after this post to keep from creating a personal digression. My comments to you are rooted in concern. I do not think you know yourself — ironically, the very thing you are advocating for all of us.
Are you aware of how defensive and passive-aggressive your posts are? You fire a verbal shot, then say you were “tongue in cheek,” or feign exasperation (”Jeezz”), to preempt us from engaging you on the issues you appear to raise. You shoot oblique and meaningless pseudo-profundities (”I pierced and I was pierced”
into the discussion to deflect thought. You hint that legitimate concerns are “gossip,” and then blow away my legitimate questions about whether you can ever assess the claims of an organization without such “gossip.”
If you review the internet articles, postings, and blogs, you will find that this organization and its leader have been accused of massive fraud and lying (with fake prophecies, fake promises to those who have sex with the leader, the ballyhooing of fake conscious beings, all the while raking in lots of money). The allegations may or may not be true, but they can’t be blown away by breezy bromides about “knowing thyself.” (And, to address your purportedly facetious comment, “knowing thyself” doesn’t preclude knowing about other things — in fact, it’s wise to know something about your job, your home, and how to drive a car as well).
Unlike you and E.S., I honestly don’t know from this discussion who are the members, who are the ex-members, and who are the non-members merely reading this site. I don’t assume all members are brainwashed and without questions; I don’t assume all ex-members are disgruntled. So I don’t see the “camps” you are referring to. Could they exist your head? More importantly, perhaps, is all this an example of Fellowship thinking? It’s kinda scary.
January 4, 2007 at 4:22 am
All
I’d like to share a theme which has become prevalent in many recent conversations with members, though not always made explicit. This theme deals with one of the primary difficulties in leaving the group: the fear of isolation.
To give some background: in the fellowship, we have an ongoing exercise (or task) to cease contact with members that have left the group. The more fundamentlist members of our group have deep-seated negative beliefs about ex-members, and attendant fear and discomfort at even crossing paths with these individuals. At another end of a wide spectrum of beliefs are members that have little regard to the task,
albeit in most cases, maintaining their friendships with ex-members very privately. Members maintaining contact with ex-members are subject to warnings and are ultimately asked to leave the group if they are openly non compliant.
Regardless of a member’s position on this or other tasks, one underwrites the view, promoted by those in charge, that ex-members have lost the “most precious gift in the universe - the opportunity to awaken”. In general the outsider or non-member is devalued; in spiritual terms, he or she is considered only a possibility, whose true potential is dependent upon living in the fellowship. Fellowship rhetoric does, after all, frequently imply the group’s spiritual hegemony over all other groups in relation to the divine. The ex-member, then, is considered someone whose possibilities have ended. The ex-member is assigned the very particular status of being cursed. Again, it is important to mention that this is not representative of the deep-seated beliefs of all, but it is the view promoted by the leaders and is publicly accepted by many.
That said, many of us are at a turning point after 15, 23, or 30 years in the group. For a variety of reasons, the least of which may be the aforementioned dillema, we want to move on. Having arrived at this point, which may involve the undoing of financial or practical ties, we are left with one very large fear - that we will lose most of our friends.
Traditionally, long-time members leaving the group have moved away to some place where they could start a new life, especially if they have
hitherto lived in or close to the community. There are however, those ex-members that have remained in the area, and to a greater or lesser
extent, they exist with the stigma of being outsiders. It seems now that this is changing.
Now many members associate with the growing number of ex-members living nearby - these are after all, old friends that may have shared a good part of their lives. Beliefs are challenged by simple human facts; that members care for, and are inspired by their friends. In the recent words of one member, toward an ex-member and friend, “love and friendship are beyond all that”.
Some members have remade friendships after years of - at best - cordial hellos at the post office. Others are unable to revive lost
relationships. Emotional breakdown sometimes occurs in cases where, having seen through their divisive attitudes, members are unable to repair historic divisions within friendships, marriages or family.
Five years ago, my good friend left the group, and in his case, I have privately maintained contact. For five years I have watched him
flourish spiritually and emotionally, and this has subtly challenged my beliefs every step of the way. The belief that by following the task I protect my self and my ‘work’ from lower influences and deviations is melting down. An alternate view of the task is that of a device, that helps solidify the fellowship beliefs that are promulgated by the leaders. Moreover, the
fear that is a product of such beliefs might mitigate the unthinkable - that I may someday find it not only acceptable, but even desirable, to leave the group.
If we reach out, we find that the concepts of inside and outside are dualistic in nature, limit understanding, and in many of us, engender
fear. This serves the instinctive needs of the group while compromising the individual. To put a different spin on a oft-quoted fellowship
jingle: the King of Clubs is keeping us in the school.
For many years I privately held the view that only formatory mind was capable of alienating ex-students. While underwriting the central
beliefs of the group, I espoused a value system of my own. Now I am forced to consider a whole framework of school beliefs, which encompasses those aspects I still value, as well as those which I find reprehensible. I no longer enjoy the luxury of compartmentalizing concepts to make them fit inside my head. It is my good fortune that the remorse is not causing emotional breakdown, as I have seen in some
cases; After all, I shared a special language and mentors - to whom I would now refer as The Great Explainers - that gave me permission. We spun contradictions variously as ‘work on attitudes’ and ‘feeding the higher self, not the lower’ and when the buffer succeeded, we called it ’separation’. Clearly the Work ideas have practical and useful applications in our group, especially when second line and first line are healthy. What cannot be ignored however, is the growing tendency to use ideas without reference to context in the present moment. Good ideas become degraded by misapplication and by self-serving use. Self-reinforcing logic becomes the only frame of reference for many members, effectively
disconnecting them from broader and deeper thought..
The so-called work in this paradigm is in many cases defined not only by superficial, but deeply psychological forms of exclusion and
exclusivity. When we realize this, we are forced to confront, and perhaps to reconcile the contradiction; well-learned dissociative behavior has become the seedbed for misconception.
One of the many outcomes of this illusory construct, which develops over many years, is the fear of isolation. The cornerstone of that
construct, to playfully misquote Gurdjieff, would read something like this: “Life is only real, then, when I am - in the fellowship - “.
If we are prepared and willing to bring more of what we can plainly see to bear on our psychology, a disquieting storm starts to gather, and what we thought was solid ground begins to fall away from under us.
In the words of Mark Twain: “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure, that just ain’t so.”
January 4, 2007 at 8:22 pm
Luke - in my opinion, you give an accurate assessment of the real dynamic that keeps people in the Fellowship of Friends. And you can add to fear of loss of friendship, the many other vested interests and material advantages that serve to imprison people in the FOF - under the guise of spiritual work.
To talk from the FOF paradigm, the whole phenomena might be explained as a divine experiment (of the gods) to discover the following:
What degree of behavioral, moral, and emotional corruption, and intellectual degradation will the human organism accept?
How far and for how long will a deluded and dysfunctional individual, whose conduct exposes himself, specific individuals, and the entire group to risk, liability, and other damaging consequences be followed without question or challenge?
How easily can individuals be enticed to surrender their extant values and standards and succumb to psychological tyranny, by adopting a narrow and fixed frame of reference that divorces them from the broader realities of life, with all its natural checks and balances.
How much money can be extracted by teachings, prophecies, and theories of spirituality that by any metrics are proven to be fallible or injurious?
The long term members of this group have truly lost their spiritual compass, but dare not perceive this to be true: the rationalizations and dissociative thinking are fantastic – for an otherwise intelligent and successful group of people.
January 5, 2007 at 11:05 pm
From above, “And you can add to fear of loss of friendship, the many other vested interests…” Such interests include maintenance of authority, position and status, stability & security, material comforts, and avoidance of the inconvenience of changing the comfortable status quo. All these factors – and many more subtler psychological motives - serve to imprison people in the FOF. Such UNextraordinary motives are couched in language that attempts to mystify and ennoble the humble reality.
Often, members resolve the discomfort that arises when a departure challenges their own basis for remaining, by concluding that “the King of Clubs” took them out of the school”. The implication here is always one of a personal failure of the departing student. (A departure must not be interpreted as a failure of the methods of the school.) This definition of failure stimulates in the remaining students a sense of superior virtue, as - in the contrast - their own work appears to have greater integrity. I have seen this play of attitudes repeatedly. The irony here is that the (instinctively entrenched) members would employ the King of Clubs explanation to denounce departing students even where the departure necessarily includes the loss of all the comforts of the status quo: friends, home, community, spouse - every single aspect of their life that has for many years constituted their entire world. Departing is much rougher than staying.
The teaching cautions against the “King of Clubs” as the enemy of awakening. The concept of the evil King of Clubs is a simple device (well documented in cult research ) that alienates common sense and all practical and intellectual discrimination: any idea or action inimical to the aims of the teacher is labeled the action of the King of Clubs, and is in this way invalidated. This device neutralizes any threat posed by questioning or doubt. With this device integrated into fellowship thinking, no real verification or informed acceptance of principles is possible. No valid way out of the fellowship exists for a member that internalizes the FOF concept of the King of Clubs: a departure is by definition a failure and can never be rational: a powerful and dangerous device, and one of many, MANY instances of faulty thinking that are endemic to fellowship culture. The many similar trite formulae and all the pseudo-logic (although, more recently, outright nonsense) manufactured by the Teacher and swallowed by the many, support the mechanism of brain washing in the fellowship. That mechanism is all the more effective for the continuous infusion of pageantry, grandiosity, and all the affectation of refinement that so characterizes public life in the FOF.
January 12, 2007 at 10:11 pm
I would like to respond to A’s post, which states “that by understanding yourself you will understand Burton”. He has said something very important here, though my interpretation of his statement will likely diverge from what he intended.
By understanding yourself, you will understand Burton: Quite true. If one understands oneself, one will also have a better understanding of what motivates the “Teacher”. That is, one’s own motives will prove to be the same or similar to the Teacher’s, for the fundamental reason that students and teachers are both human beings, with accordingly similar basic needs and psychologies. This point of view departs, however, from orthodox Fellowship teaching and belief. A good example: While still a member, I invited a student friend and her husband, to dinner. We were discussing the Teacher’s sometimes “mysterious” behaviour. I said that we needed to remember that in addition to his being our Teacher, he was also a human being. “No he is ISN’T!” she shouted from across the dinner table. “He’s a G—O—D!” That is, the Teacher is not a human being, but a different category of being altogether. I was shocked by her vehemence but was glad to hear her point of view, as I liked her, and a more concise declaration of Fellowship dogma I had never heard. A “conscious being” is so very unlike “ordinary” people, who are “sleeping” machines, as to be another creature entirely. This anthropology is at the heart of Gurdjieff’s Fourth Way teaching and at the heart of the FoF’s.
Being “conscious” means that one has not only learned to access higher states at will, but that one is oneself a higher being. Thus empowered, one is no longer subject to the same laws that govern lower beings, that is, the rest of us. I am reminded of Nietzsche’s “superman” who megalo-maniacally arises out of the weak and ignorant masses to forge his own morality out of his own will-to-power (one can easily see how Nietszche was such an inspiration to the Nazis) and how the authoritarian Gurdjieff may have been influenced by his ideas, whether directly or indirectly (Ouspensky was certainly aware of them); we in the individualised West, have certainly inherited them. Yet, the “superman”, Nietzsche’s bold replacement for the God who had died, was ultimately still a man, although (theoretically at least), much improved by his self-conscious daring and genius.
Interestingly, at the rarified level of the FoF-type conscious being, some of the rights and privileges of a higher being would appear to be the uncensored enjoyment of sensory gratifications involving, food, drink, sex, and money, as well as the intoxicating gratifications of being worshipped . . . and feared as a god. Because these pleasures are enjoyed and exercised by a conscious being, they somehow assume a different character. They are absorbed into the character of the actor, if you will. Yet one can see also that in wider society, it isn’t only ‘spiritual beings’ who, when they achieve a certain power and influence, are all too willing to exercise unrestricted privileges at the expense of others, but persons of a quite material orientation, including those less privileged, are also equally willing to “act out” more fully these same desires when circumstances finally conspire to allow them greater scope.
It is easy to acknowledge that greed, lust, vanity, and inordinate desire for power are motives behind all of our overly-indulgent actions. These aspects of our nature are so well known, that all the major religions have recognised them throughout their histories: the sage or the saint has always been distinguished not only by their perceived proximity to the divine, however that is conceived, but according to how s/he handles the very natural ‘temptations’ or ‘desires’ that “flesh is heir to”.
Interesting then, how FoF teaching would ascribe the extravagant acting out of these desires to “higher” causes, since they are enacted by a “conscious being”. Thus the Teacher’s words and actions are judged, strangely, by a so-called “higher” standard, and vices are made out to be virtues. Attitudes or actions incongruent with the teaching of the majority of sages and teachers, previously understood by means of common sense, which implies the knowledge of one’s own nature and thus of other human beings’, is instead, mystified behind a counterfeit standard.
In transcending it, one does not leave behind one’s human nature, but rather “perfects” or purifies it. The Buddha taught purifying the mind and body through mindfulness and non-attachment, and compassion through his ethics, which requires at all times, the respecting of persons and their property. Even Christ, “the Son of God”, had no problem humiliating himself by following rules meant for ordinary, humble people. “I have not come to change one jot or tittle of the law, but to fulfil it.” In fulfilling and transcending the law, he not only did not abandon its basic tenets, but made it even more exacting, by extending its sovereignty ever more into our protected inner territory, as in his purifying teaching that one doesn’t have to act out adultery to have committed it; simply to have looked upon a woman with lust was to have committed it in one’s “heart”. Or in the beatitude “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God”.
Although the FoF’s teaching has departed from the The Fourth Way, and the Fourth Way was at the outset only a root upon which RB’s teaching was grafted, the cosmological concept known as the Ray of Creation has added its burden to the belief that a conscious teacher is above the law. In the Ray of Creation, the earth is a very long way down, the last to the bottom-most rung, which terminates at the moon, an eater of souls. The further down the Ray of Creation, the more laws one is under. The object of the pupil is to free him/herself from these “unnecessary” laws and to put oneself under the influence of higher laws. Therefore, as has been said, according to FoF teaching, ordinary normative ethics apply only to those living in a lower level of consciousness, and are banished to that derogatory realm under the laws of “feminine dominance” (all the social rules one learned from one’s mother): that uncreative, mechanical region inhabited by dull “Life People”, sleeping machines, “who do not know themselves”, who understand little and who are capable of nothing else but the blind following of someone else’s arbitrary rules. Thus could RB reduce the loving acts of Mother Theresa, for example, to “mechanical goodness”, i.e., she just couldn’t help but help other people. In this dismissive and pseudo-majestical “dispensing of existence”, he thus relegated her and others who might be tempted to emulate her, to fodder for the moon. Would that we could all be like her, or Gandhi, so spontaneously self-sacrificing, generous and loving!
Under such teaching, one is asked to disbelieve what one’s senses and intuition know even without words, which is that Mother Theresa and Gandhi and others like them are doing good. Instead one is instructed to believe, counter-intuitively, and against one’s common sense, that the good actions of such people are at best useless, and at worst, evil (in the Fourth Way’s sense of evil as mechanicalness). This harsh gavel falls merely on the basis of one’s teacher conclusion that although these good people appear “awake”, they are in fact, asleep; they are definitively “unconscious beings”. The logic is this: When a “conscious being” does good, it really is good, but when a sleeping machine does good, . . .
One might ask: What could be more predictably, historically, humanly mechanical than the temptation to exploit one’s exalted position to indulge one’s every whim? Thrasymachus, a character in one of Plato’s dialogues, maintains, unsuccessfully, thank goodness, that as far as any real definition of justice is concerned, ‘Might makes right.’ I would be much more convinced, as I think most people would, of any person’s sanctity and claims to godliness (especially when the claim to divinity is exclusive of 6.5 billion other human beings on the planet) if such an exalted personage did NOT indulge their every whim, and did not, deplorably, attempt to twist vices into virtues, especially when those so-called virtues are paid for by the sweat and toil of others, while at the same time, wilfully inducing paralysis in one’s tender devotees and workers by wielding over their heads visions of spiritual extinction and the loss of all their friendships should they decide—at any point ever—to move on and to grow. I myself should be greatly vigilant if told: “The only way to graduate from the School is to die”.
But it is for each individual to decide amongst the possible motives for such statements and kinds of teaching. It could be useful to ask oneself why anyone, especially oneself, would say or teach such things. Best wishes to all.
January 20, 2007 at 6:32 am
For me much said in the last several posts from former members rings true. I was in the Fellowship twenty-some years. As early as 1984 when Miles left I had the thought: “Well, it may be right for Miles to leave now, but I know that it isn’t right for me.” The seed was planted then and it took nearly 20 more years before it was right for me to leave… (passive type).
Early on I had developed a worldview differing from Robert’s, but generally kept it to myself, and did the necessary mental gymnastics needed to rationalize some of Robert’s views and actions. It took many years to finally realize the limitations of the intellectual center!! … It is true that the emotional center leaves first and it took years before the other centers got it together to leave also. The leaving process was difficult. I really enjoyed being in the Fellowship. I enjoyed what I was doing, the people and the many good aspects of the Fellowship…but the ship, as beautiful as it was, was going where I knew I could no longer go.
I think the important thing to remember is that one has to go through all of these stages for oneself and at ones own pace. It is all “grist for the mill.” So it makes no difference if one is reading this post from within or without the Fellowship. We are all… still on a train, going somewhere, though we may have changed seats or moved to another coach. Keep listening to the place within that knows. Best to you all.
January 24, 2007 at 3:32 am
Many of us have joined this group because we had hopes to “know thyself”. Or - to be liberated, or - to achieve awakening. Some joined out of boredom to meet new friends, spouses, some were in need for a father figure. Some just wanted a visa to America! As time went by, some of us got visas, some got married and met friends. Lots of young insecure males (kind of like our friend Alexis) got their “daddy” feeding them and buying them clothes, and puling their pants down… Did anyone awake? Did someone got to know himself? I mean, honestly. Anyone liberated? No! No one! In almost 12,000 people that went through this school for over 30 years - no one got liberated. And if you think mister Girard got liberated - why don’t you ask him, or even better - go visit him at his house and see how (and what) he is doing … The reality is that lots of people got damaged emotionally and financially, got totally lost, entangled in themselves, broke down. Lots of people are so scared of the world that they are incapable to live their lives outside the Fellowship. Sounds really liberating, on all levels. Does it tell you something?
FOF is a great business, and the ONLY goal is - to make money. You are promised something you’ll never get, (well, not this lifetime, dear) and you asked to pay through the nose for it. Because you don’t know any better, or just get “hooked” on high states (just like a drug addict) - you get sucked in, brainwashed, and actually don’t mind paying. You start liking your cage after 10plus years! You defend it, and attack anyone who comes near.
Whatever the teacher does - he charges a lot for it. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, reception, meeing, picture taken with him - each of this will cost you from a 100 to 1000. The guy is simply raking it in. It’s all about the money.
Do you know for example, what is the main “task” for center directors? Help you to wake up? Assist you on your path? Not really. It is - To attract more members, recruit, catch, trap. Get the money! Get them to join! The “questionnare for directors” says: (I actually copy the original here)
Did you have activities to advertise the school? Please indicate yes or no in the list below.
Ads in Newspapers
Bookmarking
Brochures
Flyers
Newsletters
Open meeting
Others
Posters
Web site
Word of mouth
Please use the list below to indicate how many prospective students found us
Through Ads in Newspapers
Through Bookmarking
Through Brochures
Through Flyers
Through Newsletters
Through Open meeting
Through Others
Through Posters
Through Web site
Through Word of mouth
How many prospective students did you have participating in a first meeting?
How many students joined after the first meeting?
Did someone bring friends to the second meeting, if yes, how many?
How many prospective students did you have participating in a second meeting?
How many students joined after the second meeting?
You see for yourself - NOT A WORD ABOUT WAKING UP. NOT A WORD ABOUT LIBERATION. I wish I can send you a link so you can read it yourself - but it’s password protected site.
What does it tell you? Isn’t it just an agressive recruiting campaign? Why there is such a burning desire to attract members, may be to “wake people up”?
Well, because it brings 5 million a year in teaching payments, plus another 4-5 mil in additional charges for dinners, photos and such. IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. Again, It’s all about the money.
And that would be almost fine, if the teacher gives you back. If he actually teaches you to wake up. Or -cares about your progress. Then - who care what it costs! But the truth us - HE DOESN’T CARE! AND HE HAS NO CLUE!!! He really has no idea how to be present, he cannot communicate a thing to his students. The bullshit he is saying lately is so absurd - even the “followers” are starting to loose faith. This is from “Anatomy of the Sequence”: However, Christ is behind Judas, and the nine of hearts is behind Christ, so Judas’ failure is ultimately the failure of the nine of hearts. - Huh?
Or read this: “His name was Gilgamesh from the very day of his birth”—from short Be—the birth of the steward. “He was two-thirds god, one-third man.” “One-third man” refers to short Be; “two-thirds god” refers to middle Be and long BE. Schools assume that if you successfully pass through middle Be, you will complete your sequence. - Sounds so 4th way! You joined the 4th way school, remember?
Or - this one: Following Robert’s recent comment that “behind the steward is the nine of hearts, and behind the nine of hearts is divine presence, and behind divine presence are Influence C, and behind Influence C is the Absolute,” we will aim at better
understanding the responsibility of the nine of hearts in this divine equation and how to ensure its proper work.
If this is not MADNESS, then - what is?
Sadly, many students are so conditioned, addicted and stuck, that they have no other way but listen, obey and believe. And, most importantly - PAY!
Again - if any of you for some crazy reason have a thought about joining this group - please don’t! Do yourself a favour and go elsewhere. This man, RB, has no clue about awakening, he has no clue about the nature of things - all he does is squeezes out money and sperm from people.
I am so happy to finally be out of it!
January 24, 2007 at 7:07 am
I joined the FOF in 1973 because I wanted to learn how to self-remember. Five years later I left when it finally became clear to me that if that was what I wanted, I was in the wrong place. Self-remembering was given plenty of lip service, of course (along with fun but useless stuff like body types, center of gravity, etc.) but the real focus of the school was on building up of the school (and the teacher) through the “impressions octave” and “third line work.” The friendships that are developed can make it difficult to leave. But once you have seen that you are living a lie is there any question about what needs to be done?
One needs to ask this: What kind of “friend” would refuse to have anything to do with you because you leave their group? This is cultism, pure and simple. Your real friends will want to keep in touch. If nobody does, then you have learned a valuable lesson: you didn’t have any friends. Deal with it. (voluntary suffering)
I knew without a doubt that I was leaving when Robert said at dinner one night: “Is it not amazing that in the entire world there are only 1100 people (the size of the school at that time) who wish to awaken?” Talk about delusional! The world is full of delusional people, but that doesn’t mean we need to support them.
I only learned that he was a sexual predator after I left. Had I known it sooner, I would have never stayed as long as I did.
Please don’t for one second be afraid that you will be “dead” or that you are “going to hell” (as one student who left was told by R in a letter). This kind of scare talk only further confirms that the group is a cult.
BTW, I have learned far more about self-remembering since leaving the FOF. Not bad for a “dead man.”
Mark
rawvegguy@yahoo.com
February 1, 2007 at 7:55 am
Fellowship of Friends it’s a destructive cult which literally destroys ones life.It steels your identity and replaces it with a false one which called “a true or work personality” which actually is a programme thru which you will be controlled and manipulated.In years to come you will be continuously giving all you have left including all your money,fate and health but what is worse is that you going to loose your dears and your loves ones.You will be stolen from them and they will be stolen from you.You will never forgive to your self that time of trust and hope for brighter future.You’ll suffer years alone with hate and pain unless you’ll find cure from it.
You may will die from cancer or go mad or stuck in deep depression like many students are in FOF.Or you may wake up and realized that all that was…was Hell and knowing that already Heaven..
February 1, 2007 at 8:51 am
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/mindcontrol/
http://www.factnet.org/rancho1.htm
..sounds familiar??
February 1, 2007 at 9:27 am
Hello Cristina,
I understand your pain.
You have an independent mind which is a rarity these days.It is to valuable and precious to keep unguarded.
Regarding your friend I can tell you that in those years of being a student I saw many couples had failed apart and many tears been waisted.Unfortunately your friend does not hear you now and the more you’ll try to talk to him the more he will hate you for not supporting him in his fanaticism towards the “Teacher” If you really want to help him then let him go and live your life as your heart is telling you.
“We loosing only illusions on the Way”-was stating Ospensky,so if your connection with him is deep and real then you won’t loose it and on the contrary it’ll get much stronger later.
And if it wasn’t?..
Well..then what you’ve lost any way?
If he is willing so easily to replace you by some thing else then what place you’ve been taking in his life?
February 1, 2007 at 10:02 pm
Please everyone. Let’s have a sense of proportion.
I am a current member of the Fellowship. While I now question my participation and many of the decisions I have made over the years of my membership, I have to admit that I never gave away a fortune, renounced my parents, or sold my children to the slave-traders.
I, too, have seen some of the extreme and fanatic behavior discussed above, but by framing the discussion around these extremes, we have driven current members from the board. That’s a shame.
In the last few years, I have watched as the idea of “angles of thought” has disappeared — that is, the idea that we all have a point of view that, while subjective, contributes to the whole. What has replaced it increasingly is an emphasis on conformity, on the “right” opinion issued from above. Nonconformity in thoughts or behavior can be reported on, sometimes with consequences.
That has driven many substantive discussions underground, unfortunately. I was hoping this might be a place where we might share our opinions in a safe, anonymous way, rather than a place to vent or issue position statements expressing opinions that were cast in cement long ago.
February 2, 2007 at 12:07 am
Dear John,
What proportion can be found in madness? Common sense is possible between normal and honest people.
You probably need to do some serious research about what EXACTLY is happening behind the scenes of the FOF.
And what is your motive of your arguments? Are you trying to convince us that we are wrong in our views and opinions? Or you are trying to find out the TRUTH about it.
I’ll tell you one thing for sure.Do you know why the exercise “avoiding all contacts with former students” is so active verses some other exercises which far more heavy but less are punished for?
The answer is very simple Mr.John,because when one is leaving the school that usually means that he or she gets dehypnotized and they begin to see things as they are which is very dangerous to other members and to the whole system which you call a “school”.
And in regards to your statement:-”I never gave away a fortune or sold my children to the slave-traders”-I can tell you that you probably did not have any thing to give away because if you would have some thing to give you would not be able to “get away” without “giving it away” first.
And slavery? What full is thinks of him as full? What “machine” is thinks of it as a “machine”? What slave is thinks of him as slave? Will slave continue to be a slave? Unless he broke or stupid he will not”.And that’s what happening to most of us who left and keep on leaving.
A destructive cults (and FOF is one of them) has very fine and smarty hidden ways of squeezing you like a lemon and keeping you a slave and “sell” it back to you like is a fortune.They takes from you the “diamonds” and gives you back all plastic.And guess what helps them do that to you? Your fear and your fanaticism which works for them and are preventing you from seeing the Truth!.
February 2, 2007 at 5:19 am
I agree with John that it serves no useful purpose that current members are hesitant to post. If we have learned anything at all, it is that nothing is black and white. The format’s best use is for open discussion, removed of the heat of those cards we have all seen in ourselves and in others.
The strings around money and sex are certainly pulled in the Fellowship. I would expect that in any school. Though I had difficulty “getting my mind around” these areas of identification while in the Fellowship, they were not foremost in my decision to leave. More so was the culture of exclusivity that permeated the Fellowship. Robert, from the beginning, let it be known that there was no hope of awakening outside of the Fellowship, though many if not most of the 44 awakened without a school. There was a blanket assumption that there were no other individuals or groups alive today that had the keys to awakening. Robert mentioned no others and showed no curiousity on the subject. The fact that Robert showed no doubt about the Fellowship or his high status slowly drove me away from Robert emotionally. Eventually I lost trust and I knew that I had to leave. Even Christ doubted. There were a number of dinners when Robert would make one of his “exclusivity” remarks and I would hope that Robert would look over at me and wink. He never winked.
February 3, 2007 at 1:25 am
I don’t even know how to begin this. I lived in the Fellowship from age five or six to thirteen. The sweetest and most wonderful childhood memories are there, running around in the woods or going to the ballets or the operas. Culturally, it was amazing. I had the finest of educations and am well-versed in the classical arts.
Emotionally, I’m still devastated. To find out that the home of your childhood, the one place that set a standard for your environment is simply a facade for greed, power, and money is not easy thing to cope with. Having grown up there and spent almost all that time with the children, my main concern is the children.
These children, including myself, are never going to be fully adjusted to the real world. The ones that I know who left are all self-destructive and are trying to find some way of ever relating to the world again.
I’m not sure what my point is, but I thought I might as well comment. The Fellowship has granted me so much, but there’s no way they could ever make up for the emotional manipulation that the children and young adults end up having to put up with.
February 3, 2007 at 1:45 am
I appreciate this site as it has confirmed many of my thoughts and has verified what I have observed. Although my spritual background is very different from most who write and sometimes it is difficult to follow the trains of thought, certain things certainly ring true.
I have two family members who are living in the community and one is involved at apparantly high levels in the FoF and have been for over 20
years. While each of these relatives have had different experiences with FoF, they have to a greater (him) become very detached from our family. While it is sad to see we keep our opes that someday they will realize exactly what they have created for themselves.
Having been told on varoius occasions that my faith is “shallow” and that we do not understand, we have chosen not to be confrotative with these dear people and continue to look for opportunities to show by example a different way.
The willingness to rationalize some of the behavior of Robert and actions that the FoF takes ( ie settling lawsuits )just confirms what a strong grip that this “leader” has over the hearts and minds of a couple of otherwise very bright people.
Again, I appreciate the forum as it will help me to better understand much of what goes on inside the group.
February 3, 2007 at 3:05 am
What’s really important is to understand that real knowledge is FREE and there is no MONOPOLY over the conciseness.
Each and every one can BE if they want to be and KNOW if the want to know.
There is nothing to look for because is already here and there is nothing to find because we have it all already.There is no awakening “OUT THERE”,some where,but its here and it is now and we are awake already.
All we need to do is simply realizing it..
February 3, 2007 at 5:45 pm
The Fellowship does have a lot to offer. Inside the Fellowship the older students know very well that getting close to the teacher, which is the natural desire for most of the newer students, was equivalent to “getting close to the fire”. And it is common knowledge that if you get too close to the fire you might get burned. This is the logic that operates with most of the seasoned students. Getting close to Robert and not getting burned was really the test. Most of the students who have been there many years and are having success in their lives and aims have negotiated this difficult phase. It is accomplished in different ways and on different levels of understanding. One may argue that it is not really understanding but self-deception. I argue as a former member that no one but one self can know the difference (as psychologically tricky as this may sound). One should know ahead of time that the Fellowship, or the Fourth way for that matter, is a psychological minefield. We are free to choose or pick our own way.
February 4, 2007 at 12:27 am
The common “knowledge” of “getting burn when “getting close to fire” in my opinion is a complete nonsense.I’ve got very close to “REAL FIRE” and as result from this burning event I have not gone crazy,as some would think, but I simply woke up to the beauty and greatness of the whole Creation.
I would rather say then when you getting close to madness then most likely you’ll go mad your self and truly then you’ll burn to ashes.
February 4, 2007 at 1:35 am
I just went thru Mark’s and X’s letters and I want to say that whoever you guys are I fully agree and support each and every word you wrote above.The Truth is striking! Isn’t it?
February 4, 2007 at 7:22 am
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArkansasBob/
http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/f/fellowship/
http://www.rickross.com/groups/fof.html
February 6, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Perhaps it speaks poorly (yet again) of this Fellowship of Fiends, that so many of those touched by it remain self-pitying whiners even years after-the-fact. Embittered victims, the angry dwarfs of contemporary spirituality.
Look, I can be as disconcerted as anyone by the reported egregious behavior and excesses of their leader. And also by what appears, from the numerous accounts given (or linked to) here, to be a spiritual community rife with manipulation and delusory thinking. But I am also suspicious of such remarks as “these people ruined my life”; and suspicious of an underlying sentiment that I notice in a number of postings-by-the-injured (and by their instantly eager cheer-leaders).
First of all, was your life really ruined? Frankly, that reeks of exaggeration and narcissistic victim-hood. And, if the claim is even partially true — say, to the extent that you suffered financial or emotional hardship and lost valuable time — was it really this evil organization that ‘did’ those things to innocent, passive, helpless, wholesome you? I suspect the reality is far more complex. And far more interesting, too.
I am acquainted with Fourth Way literature, and will share a perception I always appreciated (from Ouspensky’s writings): “Blame is a buffer.” Didn’t you FOF-fers (former and current) ever delve into that one? Of course, Ouspensky’s observation would also apply to any tendency to ‘blame the victim,’ a policy I am by no means advocating. But all sides need to be seen.
Just for instance, what was it in YOU that made for your initial attraction to the organization, and (in some cases) your deep immersion in its worldview and psychology? Of course, the answer to that question will be many-layered, and different for each person. But it must be asked, gone into deeply, with answers fully owned up to.
Oh, excuse me, that has already been addressed on this blog, and in considerable detail, right? Let me recap (variation No. 4, on a theme for violino piccolo):
“The F.O.F. held out a promise of good things and got my hopes up, kind of seduced and hypnotized me for a while, ultimately disappointed me, but left me very dependent and fearful of leaving, which I finally did manage to do when I got totally disgusted and couldn’t stand it anymore.”
Sounds like a love affair. A lot like a love affair, maybe followed by marriage and divorce. In line with that comparison, I feel it is just too damn easy (read: mechanical) to take sides with the party who is doing all the talking, recounting the abuses, in the absence of the other voices and points of view that are surely out there.
I find it interesting that, now and again in the unfolding of this blog, a rare attempt, or hint thereof, has been made to open things up to a more multi-sided discussion. To wit, the recent posts 37, 39, and 43. These were promptly and aggressively stomped on by a particularly strident contributor, with much contempt and a bizarre kind of pontificating arrogance, in multiple postings.
So, Burton and Burtonians, where are you?! Why do you not speak? Better yet, you ambivalent ones from the land of F.O.F., weighing truth and falsehood for yourselves on the unusual path you have chosen. I’d like to hear more of what you have to say, preferably in an atmosphere of passionate (and compassionate) neutrality all around.
-BBB
February 7, 2007 at 4:59 am
Okay, Bedouin. I’ll have a go, although you’ve already heard my voice.
The “task” (or is it “exercise”?) not to talk to former students was not some perfidious invention of Robert Burton’s. In fact, it goes back to the days of Gurdjieff, long before Robert Burton was even born.
The intent of the exercise was manifold. It was to provide a clean break for the departing student, and a clean reentry should he or she wish to rejoin. It was to ensure that the Fourth Way environment consisted only of those who wanted to work with these principles, and not allowed to become diluted by the uncommitted. So, in a sense, it was to keep the experiment “pure.” And it did.
And yet… and yet… over time, it did have the side-effect – or was it the main effect??? – described above. It isolated us from healthy dissent, and from questions we needed to ask ourselves. Former students were defamed and demonized. But this conclusion throws an unexpected light not only on Robert Burton, but on Gurdjieff and the Fourth Way itself. Whoops! We don’t talk about Gurdjieff anymore… nor the Fourth Way in any specifics. Well, that raises other questions.
To keep the Fellowship experiment “pure” … the experiment. We have at times been encouraged to use scientific language, thinking of this as an “experiment.” But part of the nature of an experiment is an occasional, honest, open-minded review of the data. Is the experiment a success? It is impossible to ask this question within the Fellowship, because it is assumed only the brain-dead among us cannot smell the glorious triumph. But of what does this triumph consist? The data gets buried in a deep hole. Way back in the 70s, there was constant talk of Robert’s prediction that the Fellowship would produce seven “conscious beings” within our lifetimes. Thirty years have rolled by and, as posted earlier on this thread, not one has emerged. Not one. The failures and evacuees are swept under the carpet, the prophecies forgotten, a new hero touted to replace the disappointments and outdated illusions, and our attention quickly distracted with new oracles, new toys, new magic carpets. Similarly, the prediction of calamitous events. I, for one, was not terribly interested in these, nor put much stock in them – many of us didn’t, you know – but doesn’t it matter that they were pontificated, and failed to occur?
Words and meaning part company, under such circumstances. It would be beneficial to discuss all this without having to hide in corners with trusted friends who have been vetted for their discretion. One only gets predictable points of view that way. The official party line seems to be that none of this matters — only “states” matter.
February 7, 2007 at 5:12 am
Dear BBBB,
Your judgment can not be taken into consideration because you never was a part of the FOF and therefor you can not judge objectively about it.Why don’t you join the group first and then we’ll talk again one year later.
Every body can be a smart ass sitting in front of the screen and shooting out “opinions” such or an others.But only those who has been a part of the group has actually the right to talk about it.
“And blame no one but your self” is actually a misleading concept which brings more harm than use to one self.It is a wonderful tool to control the mind and it’s commonly used in cults but it does not work on those who suffered theirs way out.
February 7, 2007 at 9:44 am
Hello all,
To clear the tables, I am currently a member of the FOF, and have been for 20+ years.
To my understanding, the FOF exists an an environment to be used in order to transform one’s own life and no one else’s. If one stays focussed on that effort, then there is more than enough energy provided to do that.
But life on this level (what we call the second state), being what it is, means that over time, one can become comfortable or forgetful or lazy or whatever and stop using it. If the external School requirements and activities then become more active than one’s own internal use of them, strangely enough, the School can turn into it’s opposite. Rather than an environment created for experiencing inner states of freedom, it becomes an external prison.
Obviously, it is not a black and white picture, thus each student may experience the whole spectrum of effort or lack of it and states or lack of them over time. “You pay your money and you take your chances”. BTW: A number of friends who have died in recent years did not leave the School (finding it empty and the Teacher a charlatan) upon discovering their terminal diagnosis, rather each one in his or her own way used the time remaining to them to transform their life into hydrogens that can survive the death of the physical body. Those students who have been near to such experiences know better what was gained, but the student who has died knows best of all, and cannot enter discussions on the internet. Amen.
(thus, I have given this my best shot, let the Critics commence)
February 7, 2007 at 6:34 pm
“People wish to be cheated”-sad Mr.Gurdjiev and FOFers are really good at justifying madness.
February 7, 2007 at 7:26 pm
These are references for Russian-speaking students on a theme of your site -
http://fofway.narod.ru/
From former students
Present -
http://fofway.narod.ru/page8.htm
The points of view -
http://www.narod.ru/guestbook/index.xhtml?owner=3210512&sent=1
February 8, 2007 at 7:42 am
Whether the FOF is good, bad, or in between, one can look at the matter this way: Even a villain has a right to a fair trial, otherwise the system is defective and the innocent will be taken down, sooner or later. Thus, all the relevant testimonies must be heard, with discrimination but without prejudice. And, courtroom metaphors aside, it would just make for a more interesting, potentially enlightening discussion to invite the full spectrum of opinions and experiences. A healthy plurality of voices would include FOF members both former and current, dissatisfied and otherwise, and anyone else who cares enough about the topic to follow the thread and share their observations. It is not just a rant-room for the angry, not just a verbal photo-op for self-styled anticultist crusaders and conspiracy-cranksters who would like to prejudge the matter for everyone else. No, thank you, I will hear the voices, listen to the tone, check the facts as responsibly as I can, and then either form an opinion, or refrain from opinion as I see fit.
And X-manLS, nowhere in my post did I recommend “blaming yourself.” A key point, about which I could not have been more explicit, was to get beyond the psychology of blame altogether — because it is a ‘buffer’ which tends to obscure the big-picture, as well as a potentially crippling negative emotion which makes it more difficult to move on.
-BBB
February 8, 2007 at 8:24 am
I live in Isis for 17 years and to say the truth first 13 it felt like I am going some where,moving forward learning and evolving.But in the last few years of Roberts teaching I have found my self in deep confusion and literally lost.I don’t know what to think any more.My buffers like “this is just his machine” and a concise being can afford him self pretty much any thing because he is no longer a human” does not work any more.And to tell you the truth if what I see in him is call “awakening” that I seriously doubting my desire to awaken.I am grateful for this website where people like me can share they thought in a discreet way.In Fellowship we are not allowed to discuss any thing like that.Those discussions are called “gossips” and “expressing negativity towards the school and Teacher” for which one can be punished in numerous ways.
For a long time now I was thinking about leaving the school but I was afraid that Robert will find the way to harm me later.I know that many current student in Isis are visiting this website regularly but still are afraid to leave a comments.My friend had emailed me this link and sad that this site had shocked him at first but later on he found that what he was reading about in those letters was for a long his own experience which he could not accept or even look upon.And now after 26 years in the school he is with “one leg out” as he briefly mentioned in his last later.I don’t know where that will lead me but certainly its usefully now.Thank you!
February 8, 2007 at 6:41 pm
FYI: Many students in the Fellowship are from other countries. It is probably safe to say that more than half the membership are not native English speakers. It is much more of an effort for these non native speakers to write posts.
February 8, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Ellen,
Often when one raises uncomfortable questions, the subject of Our Sainted Dead is brought in as a silencer, although I know you did not mean it that way. I know some of those deaths were whitewashed hagiographies, heavily marketed for promotional purposes. Anyway, with the tsunami of positive attention people receive when on their deathbeds, including phone calls from the usually inaccessible leader, last-minute changes-of-heart become improbable.
But only sanctified deaths count. There were other deaths, not spoken of … a few months ago, a man who was on a «leave of absence », and purportedly a former lover of the leader’s, killed himself. Rumor has it that he tried to call the leader in the days before he died, and his phone calls were refused. He, too, was a fellow traveller along the Fellowship road. He was someone